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	<title>Comments on: Large Sites and Information Architecture</title>
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	<link>http://doteduguru.com/id2293-large-sites-and-information-archiecture.html</link>
	<description>Internet Marketing and Web Development in Higher Education and other tidbits...</description>
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		<title>By: Matthew Levy</title>
		<link>http://doteduguru.com/id2293-large-sites-and-information-archiecture.html/comment-page-1#comment-6171</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 14:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doteduguru.com/?p=2293#comment-6171</guid>
		<description>Thanks for crafting a very nice argument for well-thought IA. Obviously, it&#039;s critical for the sprawling mess that is a higher ed site. The highway analogy is dead-on. I also appreciate what Tim Windsor was saying about being dropped in. Search is so central to the modern site that to ignore the fact that users don&#039;t necessarily drill into your site from the top is crazy.

Probably the one question I find myself asking when making IA decisions is &quot;Is this content important to a user?&quot; - and for much of our content the answer is no. Unfortunately, that unused content may contribute to a larger picture in some way (such as demonstrating program goals). The problem I find I&#039;m often wrestling with is finding a balance between content &quot;completeness&quot; and content &quot;simplicity&quot;. 

Any suggestions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for crafting a very nice argument for well-thought IA. Obviously, it&#8217;s critical for the sprawling mess that is a higher ed site. The highway analogy is dead-on. I also appreciate what Tim Windsor was saying about being dropped in. Search is so central to the modern site that to ignore the fact that users don&#8217;t necessarily drill into your site from the top is crazy.</p>
<p>Probably the one question I find myself asking when making IA decisions is &#8220;Is this content important to a user?&#8221; &#8211; and for much of our content the answer is no. Unfortunately, that unused content may contribute to a larger picture in some way (such as demonstrating program goals). The problem I find I&#8217;m often wrestling with is finding a balance between content &#8220;completeness&#8221; and content &#8220;simplicity&#8221;. </p>
<p>Any suggestions?</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://doteduguru.com/id2293-large-sites-and-information-archiecture.html/comment-page-1#comment-6020</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doteduguru.com/?p=2293#comment-6020</guid>
		<description>You make a very good point in that universities have terrible insight on &quot;future&quot; development and usually do not jump into any web project with scalability in mind. I&#039;ve seen this one too many times when they paint themselves into a corner and have to restructure their entire site only a year later. Good use of tuition money huh? Thanks for the information!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make a very good point in that universities have terrible insight on &#8220;future&#8221; development and usually do not jump into any web project with scalability in mind. I&#8217;ve seen this one too many times when they paint themselves into a corner and have to restructure their entire site only a year later. Good use of tuition money huh? Thanks for the information!</p>
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		<title>By: OtherWebGuy</title>
		<link>http://doteduguru.com/id2293-large-sites-and-information-archiecture.html/comment-page-1#comment-6015</link>
		<dc:creator>OtherWebGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 03:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doteduguru.com/?p=2293#comment-6015</guid>
		<description>Great post, Michael. It really is amazing how difficult good, clear information architecture can be when dealing with higher education.

For a standard commercial enterprise, information architecture is fairly simple. You have products and/or services. You divide them up into categories, add an &quot;About&quot; page and a &quot;Contact&quot; page and you&#039;ve got a well-organized, sensible site.

However, for higher education, we have to consider our audiences more than we consider our &quot;products&quot; and &quot;services&quot; and have to come up with six or seven different architectures for basically the same information. That makes for a lot of necessary duplication, and can cause the architecture of the site to become extremely confusing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Michael. It really is amazing how difficult good, clear information architecture can be when dealing with higher education.</p>
<p>For a standard commercial enterprise, information architecture is fairly simple. You have products and/or services. You divide them up into categories, add an &#8220;About&#8221; page and a &#8220;Contact&#8221; page and you&#8217;ve got a well-organized, sensible site.</p>
<p>However, for higher education, we have to consider our audiences more than we consider our &#8220;products&#8221; and &#8220;services&#8221; and have to come up with six or seven different architectures for basically the same information. That makes for a lot of necessary duplication, and can cause the architecture of the site to become extremely confusing.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Roth</title>
		<link>http://doteduguru.com/id2293-large-sites-and-information-archiecture.html/comment-page-1#comment-6004</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Roth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 07:23:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doteduguru.com/?p=2293#comment-6004</guid>
		<description>Great post. I agree, my experience shows that there is something perhaps at a sub conscience level that users acknowledge as an IA--or at least IA clues.

You can say that they don&#039;t comprehend the IA, but test after test seems to confirm that they do indeed infer an IA regardless of how explicit it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post. I agree, my experience shows that there is something perhaps at a sub conscience level that users acknowledge as an IA&#8211;or at least IA clues.</p>
<p>You can say that they don&#8217;t comprehend the IA, but test after test seems to confirm that they do indeed infer an IA regardless of how explicit it is.</p>
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		<title>By: wilhb81</title>
		<link>http://doteduguru.com/id2293-large-sites-and-information-archiecture.html/comment-page-1#comment-5983</link>
		<dc:creator>wilhb81</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 05:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doteduguru.com/?p=2293#comment-5983</guid>
		<description>Great post, Micheal. I&#039;ve already read the &quot;Ambient Findability&quot; and it&#039;s really a great book indeed!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Micheal. I&#8217;ve already read the &#8220;Ambient Findability&#8221; and it&#8217;s really a great book indeed!</p>
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		<title>By: Nikolay</title>
		<link>http://doteduguru.com/id2293-large-sites-and-information-archiecture.html/comment-page-1#comment-5943</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikolay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 04:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doteduguru.com/?p=2293#comment-5943</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve decide to create our website with WordPress. Work is not too fast but easy and quickly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve decide to create our website with WordPress. Work is not too fast but easy and quickly.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle James</title>
		<link>http://doteduguru.com/id2293-large-sites-and-information-archiecture.html/comment-page-1#comment-5928</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 16:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doteduguru.com/?p=2293#comment-5928</guid>
		<description>Fienen, you have me thinking here... as important being able to know where you are when you land on a site and having a clean and clear IA is we still have 50%+ of visitors who simply give up on trying to figure out where they are and just use your search option.  

I guess the point I&#039;m making is that the IA for a large site is VERY important in the usability/accessibility and ultimately search engine optimization of a site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fienen, you have me thinking here&#8230; as important being able to know where you are when you land on a site and having a clean and clear IA is we still have 50%+ of visitors who simply give up on trying to figure out where they are and just use your search option.  </p>
<p>I guess the point I&#8217;m making is that the IA for a large site is VERY important in the usability/accessibility and ultimately search engine optimization of a site.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Fienen</title>
		<link>http://doteduguru.com/id2293-large-sites-and-information-archiecture.html/comment-page-1#comment-5922</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Fienen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 00:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doteduguru.com/?p=2293#comment-5922</guid>
		<description>Yay! It&#039;s always nice to know that I can inspire the great @tonydunn! Hehe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yay! It&#8217;s always nice to know that I can inspire the great @tonydunn! Hehe.</p>
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		<title>By: Nikki Massaro Kauffman</title>
		<link>http://doteduguru.com/id2293-large-sites-and-information-archiecture.html/comment-page-1#comment-5920</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikki Massaro Kauffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doteduguru.com/?p=2293#comment-5920</guid>
		<description>@fienen: I liked the highway analogy.  When I read the first post, I immediately though about how when I navigate to any point, on the Web or otherwise, I personally like that sense of context.  When I drive, it comes in the form of a Google Map.  On the Web, it could be breadcrumbs or a site map or a search.  Sometimes you need to look out over the big picture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@fienen: I liked the highway analogy.  When I read the first post, I immediately though about how when I navigate to any point, on the Web or otherwise, I personally like that sense of context.  When I drive, it comes in the form of a Google Map.  On the Web, it could be breadcrumbs or a site map or a search.  Sometimes you need to look out over the big picture.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Dunn</title>
		<link>http://doteduguru.com/id2293-large-sites-and-information-archiecture.html/comment-page-1#comment-5919</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Dunn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 21:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doteduguru.com/?p=2293#comment-5919</guid>
		<description>Michael,

Funny, a coworker and I were discussing this exact thing today at lunch. I just finished a draft wireframe for our new home page and we were going over the contextual clues that the wireframe provided users and the flexibility that the layout would provide subsites with different contexts. 

Specifically, we were talking about how people instinctively wayfind on sites using clues that they are not even consciously aware of and how the wireframe leveraged those, particularly in cases where users teleported to a page deep within the site.

Your post will go a long way in helping us explain/defend our decisions.

Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>Funny, a coworker and I were discussing this exact thing today at lunch. I just finished a draft wireframe for our new home page and we were going over the contextual clues that the wireframe provided users and the flexibility that the layout would provide subsites with different contexts. </p>
<p>Specifically, we were talking about how people instinctively wayfind on sites using clues that they are not even consciously aware of and how the wireframe leveraged those, particularly in cases where users teleported to a page deep within the site.</p>
<p>Your post will go a long way in helping us explain/defend our decisions.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Rivera</title>
		<link>http://doteduguru.com/id2293-large-sites-and-information-archiecture.html/comment-page-1#comment-5917</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Rivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 17:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doteduguru.com/?p=2293#comment-5917</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s not forget that good IA is as much for the team that maintains and operates a site as it is for the end visitor to the site. That&#039;s why, on a personal blog, IA isn&#039;t as big a concern as it is on a large site. You&#039;re the only writer on the blog, the only person maintaining it, the only person that has to determine any future changes. Since it&#039;s a one person show, you can do, or not do, whatever you want architecturally. If it turns out to be a problem, change it and move on- case closed. 

Alternatively, for a large site, you have multiple people involved in the operation of the site. Any change or decision affects more than one person and any miscommunication or difference of opinion can create friction and, perhaps, hard to remove consequences like politics, power struggles and/or poor teamwork. IA, in that sense, comes to the rescue. 

A well crafted IA phase where key people collaborate and are empowered to contribute their best efforts serves as an agreed upon platform for everyone to work upon. If a usability problem crops up, then the team as a whole is responsible. There is less chance of finger pointing or other negative consequences because the team was involved as a group in laying out the roadmap. A problem is therefore shared, worked on and solved as a cohesive group. I could go on, but that&#039;s the power of IA and why it&#039;s important. 

The benefits that site visitors get from it can be regarded as icing on the cake if you care to look at things from a different perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s not forget that good IA is as much for the team that maintains and operates a site as it is for the end visitor to the site. That&#8217;s why, on a personal blog, IA isn&#8217;t as big a concern as it is on a large site. You&#8217;re the only writer on the blog, the only person maintaining it, the only person that has to determine any future changes. Since it&#8217;s a one person show, you can do, or not do, whatever you want architecturally. If it turns out to be a problem, change it and move on- case closed. </p>
<p>Alternatively, for a large site, you have multiple people involved in the operation of the site. Any change or decision affects more than one person and any miscommunication or difference of opinion can create friction and, perhaps, hard to remove consequences like politics, power struggles and/or poor teamwork. IA, in that sense, comes to the rescue. </p>
<p>A well crafted IA phase where key people collaborate and are empowered to contribute their best efforts serves as an agreed upon platform for everyone to work upon. If a usability problem crops up, then the team as a whole is responsible. There is less chance of finger pointing or other negative consequences because the team was involved as a group in laying out the roadmap. A problem is therefore shared, worked on and solved as a cohesive group. I could go on, but that&#8217;s the power of IA and why it&#8217;s important. </p>
<p>The benefits that site visitors get from it can be regarded as icing on the cake if you care to look at things from a different perspective.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Fienen</title>
		<link>http://doteduguru.com/id2293-large-sites-and-information-archiecture.html/comment-page-1#comment-5916</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Fienen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 17:27:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doteduguru.com/?p=2293#comment-5916</guid>
		<description>You are very correct.  I agree, that if you are doing things right, you should be able to back up what you are planning and doing, and the right background and research ultimately plays a large part in that.

But, where I think things differ is in execution.  In higher ed, we are always defending decisions, sometimes to the savvy, more often to the not.  These &quot;nots&quot; don&#039;t know what a bounce is, they don&#039;t get siloing, and they rarely care.  It just comes down to whether or not you can spin it in a way they will care about.  Maybe that means falling back on the research, or maybe it just means telling them what they want to hear to get the green light to do things your way (i.e. the right way).

Absolutely I could take an afternoon to review them on usability testing, lexicon, flow charts, etc, but in the long run, it&#039;s usually easier (and cheaper) to just convince them in a simple way and move on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are very correct.  I agree, that if you are doing things right, you should be able to back up what you are planning and doing, and the right background and research ultimately plays a large part in that.</p>
<p>But, where I think things differ is in execution.  In higher ed, we are always defending decisions, sometimes to the savvy, more often to the not.  These &#8220;nots&#8221; don&#8217;t know what a bounce is, they don&#8217;t get siloing, and they rarely care.  It just comes down to whether or not you can spin it in a way they will care about.  Maybe that means falling back on the research, or maybe it just means telling them what they want to hear to get the green light to do things your way (i.e. the right way).</p>
<p>Absolutely I could take an afternoon to review them on usability testing, lexicon, flow charts, etc, but in the long run, it&#8217;s usually easier (and cheaper) to just convince them in a simple way and move on.</p>
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		<title>By: Kris Bell</title>
		<link>http://doteduguru.com/id2293-large-sites-and-information-archiecture.html/comment-page-1#comment-5915</link>
		<dc:creator>Kris Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 17:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doteduguru.com/?p=2293#comment-5915</guid>
		<description>Hi. Came across this post from Digg. Interesting stuff, and agree that exposing portions of the site architecture aid in wayfinding. (Breadcrumbs can also serve to provide for &quot;in case of failure fallback navigation&quot; -- when contextually surfaced navigation, or your primary navigation fail).

That said, this:

“Information architecture is not science, it is art.  Like conducting a symphony.  It’s one part knowledge, two parts skill, and three parts just saying stuff like you know what you’re talking about and hoping others will go along with you”

I have to disagree with. 

The best design decisions you can make are the ones you can defend with evidence: quantitative evidence, from usability studies, task analysis, eye tracking studies, or analytics; or qualitative evidence from user research interviews, contextual inquiry, surveys, or other ethnographic research techniques. At my agency we sell and defend work based on the &quot;guess - think - know&quot; spectrum. When you design based on guessing (informed by standards &amp; conventions, best practices, expert opinion), you have no way to defend yourself other than through persuasion. If you design based on what you think you know, from user research, you&#039;re much better off. If you run a usability test and validate your design decisions, then you know your choices were right.

The goal of any good information architect, user experience architect, ui designer, or what have you, is whittling down the number of assumptions and guesses you have to make.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi. Came across this post from Digg. Interesting stuff, and agree that exposing portions of the site architecture aid in wayfinding. (Breadcrumbs can also serve to provide for &#8220;in case of failure fallback navigation&#8221; &#8212; when contextually surfaced navigation, or your primary navigation fail).</p>
<p>That said, this:</p>
<p>“Information architecture is not science, it is art.  Like conducting a symphony.  It’s one part knowledge, two parts skill, and three parts just saying stuff like you know what you’re talking about and hoping others will go along with you”</p>
<p>I have to disagree with. </p>
<p>The best design decisions you can make are the ones you can defend with evidence: quantitative evidence, from usability studies, task analysis, eye tracking studies, or analytics; or qualitative evidence from user research interviews, contextual inquiry, surveys, or other ethnographic research techniques. At my agency we sell and defend work based on the &#8220;guess &#8211; think &#8211; know&#8221; spectrum. When you design based on guessing (informed by standards &amp; conventions, best practices, expert opinion), you have no way to defend yourself other than through persuasion. If you design based on what you think you know, from user research, you&#8217;re much better off. If you run a usability test and validate your design decisions, then you know your choices were right.</p>
<p>The goal of any good information architect, user experience architect, ui designer, or what have you, is whittling down the number of assumptions and guesses you have to make.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Fienen</title>
		<link>http://doteduguru.com/id2293-large-sites-and-information-archiecture.html/comment-page-1#comment-5913</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Fienen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doteduguru.com/?p=2293#comment-5913</guid>
		<description>The larger a site becomes, clearly the more difficult good control over IA becomes.  The things I&#039;d make sure of: make sure people know there is a plan to the site, offer suggestions when you see things in a strange place, and enlist others to help support it.  In our case, each college has a &quot;techie&quot; sort of person that helps with all the web sites under that college.  We let them know what&#039;s up and work with them to effectively manage sites.

In that sense, there has to be a central brain running things, but you have to have a certain amount of trust in how people do things.  It&#039;s like that adage: You can have it fast, cheap, and good - pick two.  We can&#039;t have it all.  But if we acknowledge that there is a problem with old IA gameplans, we can start changes to improve it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The larger a site becomes, clearly the more difficult good control over IA becomes.  The things I&#8217;d make sure of: make sure people know there is a plan to the site, offer suggestions when you see things in a strange place, and enlist others to help support it.  In our case, each college has a &#8220;techie&#8221; sort of person that helps with all the web sites under that college.  We let them know what&#8217;s up and work with them to effectively manage sites.</p>
<p>In that sense, there has to be a central brain running things, but you have to have a certain amount of trust in how people do things.  It&#8217;s like that adage: You can have it fast, cheap, and good &#8211; pick two.  We can&#8217;t have it all.  But if we acknowledge that there is a problem with old IA gameplans, we can start changes to improve it.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Windsor</title>
		<link>http://doteduguru.com/id2293-large-sites-and-information-archiecture.html/comment-page-1#comment-5912</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Windsor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doteduguru.com/?p=2293#comment-5912</guid>
		<description>It could be a lot worse - you could have had your &quot;Safe Search&quot; filters turned off.

:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It could be a lot worse &#8211; you could have had your &#8220;Safe Search&#8221; filters turned off.</p>
<p> <img src='http://doteduguru.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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